Eat, Drink, Think
Eat, Drink, Think

Episode · 5 months ago

Sustainable Beef with Panorama Organic Meats and the National Audubon Society

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today I'm talking with Kay Cornelius, a fourth generation rancher and the new general manager at Panorama Organic as well as Marshall Johnson, vice president of Audubon's conservation ranching initiative. And before you go shopping for your sustainable grass fed beef, you'll definitely want to hear my conversation with Marilyn Noble, a food writer and recipe developer with special expertise in cooking grass fed beef. But first, Kay's here to talk birds, beef, and what it's like to be a woman in the male dominated business of meat.

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I'm joy manning and this is eat drink-think a podcast brought to you by edible communities that James BeardAward winning network of magazines published across the US and Canada.Together we celebrate all things: Local and sustainable in the food world to day for digging into the topic ofsustainable meat. Recently, the National Ottobon Society partnered withPanorama organic to certify every ranch in panoramas network, one million acresand bird friendly. You can read all about it in the summer issue of ediblecommunities, magazines or online edial COMMUNICO. Today, I'm talking with K, Cornelius afourth generation rancher and the new general manager at Panorama Amanic, aswell as Marshall Johnson, vice president of Odeon's conservation,ranching initiative and before you go shopping for yoursustainable grass. Ted beep you'll definitely want to hear my conversationwith Marilyn Noble, a blood writer and recipe developer, with specialexpertise in cooking grass, dead, beef, but first case here to talk birds, beefand what it's like to be a woman in the male dominated business of meat. I Kay thank you so much for joining ushi. Well, as we mentioned, ranching is your family business, your fourthgeneration rancher and I'm wondering, did you ever consider a totallydifferent career outside of the world of ranching and meat? I wanted to be aveterinarian from the earliest of ages. I was a horse girl, I loved horses. Icould you know be with my father and my family out working cows on a horse. Itwas a place that I found freedom and I loved taking care of horses. So I wentto college to be a veterinarian and along the way, something that that Ithink really shaped me was besides loving to be with my dad. My mom wasthis super cool person who was a footy before there was such a thing as afooty and we lived in South Dakota, I always like to say a gas take awayfrom the closest town with a big grocery store, but my mother being whoshe was she loved. She Got Gourmet magazine and found up a tea before itwas cool and she would take me on trips to Minneapolis, and you know it wastrips to do things to run errands for the farm, but along the way we alwaysstopped at the byerly's grocery store the one with the big chandeliers, andwe would buy things that that we've never seen before out of farm in SouthDakota and we take those home things like garlic. That was pretty exotic forus. That's funny, and you know, carrots of different colors and cheeses thatyou know we all we'd ever seen in a grocery store where I grew up, was theorange kind right and we brought home all these cheeses and- and my motherwould cook from these recipes, and so the love of animals from my father andfarming and being with the season from my father and the love of cooking withmy mother was probably a pretty intoxicating combination. So, as inyour blood, it was in my blood and I will never forget as a child we but yerto steer every year and that steer was done at a local butcher shot becauseevery little town had a local butcher shop. We would walk in. I love thesmell of a meet chap, but her shop, I love the smell, and I just the butcher rat paper. Meat waswas something of wonder to me. I hadn't...

...ever really seen anything that came ina Selifan apt with this tyropoean until it was muched, and so my mother beingthe cook that she was and buying buying ingredients or growing them. We hadhuge gardens and my father always being outside working on ranch and farming. Ijust I wanted to be a veterinarian. I got to college and I didn't get intovet school on my first try not unusual. For that period of time. I met a professor of Meat Science who who justtook me under his wing and said you don't need to go to vet school comecome, come do research with me on the science of meat and- and I love that Itruly did. I got to see some of the world. Through my travels as a Gradstudent, I got A. I was a full ride, scholarship with a graduate stipend. Imean it was like a pot of goal. That's how I got to be. You know kind of thebackground of why I love ranching and then and then along the way. I marrieda rancher. There was no plans for that and I married a rancher newly married.We went back to the ranch which, in the early S, jobs were a little hard tofind and I was pretty far from a big city, but I was very close to a meatpacking plant. So at twenty three I took a job in the meat packing plantbecause there was nothing else that was another epiphany for man but yeah.That's how I kind of got my start and I just love the smell of cows. I love thesmell of of their hair and the Hay. I just find it to be comforting andthere's something about it. I can't say the same for pigs, but I love the smellof cows. It's great to be doing what you love Yeah Yeah. So you have thisbackground and me you are a rancher you're ranching to this day, but youalso have this very impressive business background. Today you are the generalmanager for a Panorama. Organic meats came to Panorama from the a very bigname in the meat world, Nimean ranch yeah. So where did you get thisbusiness background? So the one thing I can tell you from going to college, andI if I was to give any advice to egg students, agricultural students, animalscience students is, I did not have to take a business class and that was amajor mistake. I've had to learn the financial side of it the hard waythrough through through hard knocks. However, I have a mother in law at whoruns our ranch. Who is a CPA and she's as tough as nails, and so she hashelped me build the business case for why we ranch and and help me from thatstandpoint, and then I have to say that I'm surrounded by great team members,who you know, I will self admit the things I'm weak on and Gosh JeffTRIPICA, who I've worked for now for twelve years, he sent me toVanderbilt's business school the executive series so that I could learnto read a ballad sheet and learn some of the business mba type stuff typematerial, so that so that I could walk the walk and talk the talk when it cameto running to business. It's been, I just have had a lot of people help mealong the way on the business side that cared enough to spend the time and andreally help me with that. Nyman ranch is a big company Panorama organic also.You know these are companies where you have to Balance Your prophet goals withyour values as a company, and it seems like that could be a little tricky. Howdid you? How do you think about that? How does that play out in your worklife? I believe that the model, the...

...business model that was built at Nimeanranch and I'm carrying this forth into Panorama, is one that is totallydifferent than anything else. I've seen in the in the meat business. You know I worked. I worked for NYMANand I also work for you know a large large beak company forten years, and every do you mean a large mean company that doesn't havesustainable values is central to its mission like diamond and Panorama. Iyes, I work. I worked for for that packing plant that I went to work for.I have. I eventually moved up into the into the office so to speak m. There isa difference between raising beef and being a meat company or raised you know,raising the product and being a meet company and what Niama in along thatway in the traditional commodity sense, someone along the value chain alwaysloses. I Lo so high it. You know it's: What's the commodity market you'realways trying to buy below the commodity market and sell above abovethe the carcass? You know US DA posted carcass price. Someone along that chainis always the loser, whether it be the producer or the, whether it be the cowcalf producer or the t e, the finish, the one that finishes and gets on themarket weight or the packing plant or the retailer. Someone along that Jay islosing what I loved about. NYMAN ranch is no one lost along the value chainand the way that the business model was was was successful. Was the farmer came first? We everything we do at Panoramaeverything we did. We continue to do at at Nyman ranch. Where I came from thefarmer comes first, we pay, we pay the farmer a fair wage for the product, andthen we tell the farmer story. It is so powerful and when you look them in theeye like I did last week and you see three generations, you want them to win and if you have abusiness model that puts them first and we tell the story, that's that's. Whenthe Meat Company can be financially viable- and I mean we all need them towin coming off of a conversation with Marcel, we need vergene of Agricultureon the grass lands to preserve the ecosystem. there. It's what I'velearned from you all. I will tell you that I grew up in rural South Dakota. Ihad twenty seven kids in my high school class. We were all farm kids and noneof us returned to the ranch, because some one lost and the community becamedeserted. The school is now closed. The town of three hundred and fifty is nowsomething less than that, and that's not okay, families that don't own theland is not okay. My mission, because it's personal for me, is to make surethat anyone at Panorama that is raising cattle for Panorama has a source ofincome that gives hope for that next generation. That's what drives me ineverything I do. Is it fair to say there aren't a lot ofwomen and executive leadership posesion in the meat in the meat business, notwhere I've worked at NYMAN and and at Panorama Panorama has eleven people onstaff. Five of them are women. At Nyman we have always been heavy on women fromexecutives on down it is. It is split, very evenly, it's the culture that thatis inclusive of women and people of diverse that background, I think that'swhat makes us really great. We have a...

...diversity of opinions within thecompany and and the culture allows us to have those diversity of opinionsthat come from men, women, Different Ages, different backgrounds, and itinforms all of us on how to do business best other than the advice you alreadyshared about taking business courses when you're in school. Do you have anyother advice for younger women or earlier career women who may beinterested in leadership roles and either the meat business or agriculturemore generally or even the food world at large? Well, I think, I think the good news isthat the tide is turning. We are. We are lucky to live in this time, wherewomen in leadership or on a path to leadership are mentor. I have I myself have been very lucky tohave had I've always worked for men, that's, that is. That is a truestatement, but I've always been surrounded by women as well as men, butbut women in particular that that had that goal of advancing- and I would saythat find your mentor find that person thatwill take you, whether it's a man or a woman, find that person that will thatwill say. I will give you a hand up much like much like Jeff did for mewhen it came to knowing that I needed to take some business classes. We makeit a priority here at at Panorama and particular Nyman, where, if you wantedto take a class, go ahead and do it and and you know we would celebrateadvancement, whether it the colleges, business classes, learning a new skillwhatever it is to make you and all around person, and the other thing thatI tell people whether they're men or women, two things when they're, firststarting out from college, try to stick it out. You at least one year at yourfirst job, be patient. I see a lot of impatience. People that have been in ajob three months decide that they don't don't like it. They're not advancingfast enough well, who can advance in three years and three months and so bepatient and learn not just what to do, but maybe take the tips of what not todo so that when you're ready for your next job, you have that opportunity,but most certainly here this culture with with Nyman and Panorama, womenhave been treated as equals and I've been lucky. I just have had incrediblementors along the way. Well, that's great to hear- and I think that's greatadvice for really any person WHO's trying to make way in their career.Well, thank you so much for being with us today. Okay, it was a pleasure totalk to you. Thank you, joy and our panorama ranchers. Thank you as wellfor telling our story well, I think them that was K, Cornelius, generall managerof Panorama, organic meets Marshall. Johnson is the vice presidentof the Conservation Ranching Initiative at the National Audubon Society, and hebelieves regular people have more power than we think to help protect theenvironment through our purchasing decisions. To that end, Ottobon has created thegraze on fired, friendly land seal, to help ego conscious shoppers makedecisions about what beef to buy. Welcome to the podcast Marshal, thanksfor having me joy. So how did you get into preserving grasslands and thebirds that live there? Why is this so important to you? What drew you to thetopic? Well, it's certainly you know if Icould go back and talk to five year old me. It's certainly not would have beenon my. What are you going to do when you grow up less, but I grew up inDallas, Texas and California, Los...

Angeles, California, and we spent a lotof time on the roads in between Dallas and Los Angeles, and I just alwaysremember never feeling comfortable in cities and always feeling at home outon the prairies of West, Texas and New Mexico and in Arizona a net wholelandscape and not something that you know a black kid and the inner citythinks about. It would be a career one day, but studying business at theUniversity of Minnesota and one day can in a roundabout way. I was drug intojoining a prairie chicken, viewing blind and all of that nostalgia all ofthose feelings of sounds from my time growing up spending a lot of time inTexas came back to me, and I decided this is what I want to do. I want towork in conservation, somehow, some way of Graslin, I'm sorry. You were drawninto a prairie chicken. What can you say more about that or explain it toother city slickers like me, that might not know what that is ye, absolutelyper chickens and sage grouse, the suite of birds, grouse speech, species arejust incredible birds and during the springtime they have a ritual that theydo and in these booming grounds are mating grounds. IS WE CALL THEM LEX?The males and females meet up, and there are these incredible song anddances and mating displays that the males willwill do in order to attract females that are standing by and watching thissort of odd behavior, and if you sneak into pre set up blinds, usually theyare sort of trailers or some type of wooden, enclosed area. So the birdsdon't know you're there if be sneaky in right before sunrise you're able toview all of this from fifteen twenty feet away, and I was invited to comealong one morning and it sort of changed my life. I guess you could saythat's incredible: How did you find your way from being a business schoolstudent who you know observed this thing that was moving to you andmotivated you don't want to preserve the the grass lands to get on to it apretty different career track than you might expect for a business schoolstudent. It's a great question. I decided to move to Fargo North Dakotaand to take a part time roll with the National Ataban Society.I thought that it would be a three month kind of six month kind of fillthis out and think about what this feeling is that that I'm having andwanting to do conservation having not really thought much about it. Previousto that point- and that was a it was supposed to be a three or six monthdetour and it was a thirteen year career and you're still there yeah. So can you tell us in a nutshell, whyonuva created this new grazed on bird friendly land seal there's already alot of labels, sort of coming at you and you're at the grocery store yeah,absolutely for Ottobon, and I think generally I wilting. I think it's it'ssomething we should all accept. The production of food and energy isruining. Our Planet is in leads to planetary ruin, but it doesn't have tothe production of food and energy can lead us down a road of planetaryrenewal and it's all about how we grow food, how we grow and produce energy.What we recognized was there were a lot of labels out there, but very fewif anyhad actually none at the time were...

...really focused on a measured sciencebased approach to protecting and enhancing birds, ecology andbiodiversity. Organic alone doesn't do that. Regenerative is sort of a bigumbrella, big term. We wanted to create something to create something thatreally spoke specifically to bird, because birds of such an incredibleindicator of overall ecosystem health and at the time that we started tothink about this program. You we're in a period of forty years, were we'velost three billion birds and the overwhelming majority of those havebeen birds that nest in grelets because we are degrading and losing NorthAmerica's grasslands. We've lost more than fifty percent of what was once oneof the most ubiquitous native ECO systems out there, and so we recognizethat our conservation efforts tend to falloutside of the main drivers of land you sed scale, and that there was potentialfor Ottobon to take our very well known brand mobilize our one point: ninemillion members in the broader set of forty eight million birders in thiscountry and put that energy behind a productive methodology or approach tofood production that was regiert, ive and bird friendly and measured. So wewant to measure birds. We want to measure ecological outcomes, we want tomeasure soil, carbon and so overall, so it help, but really focusing on. All ofthose things for the benefit of Biade Sity, that space was not occupied andthere was growing. I think there has been growing interest amongst consumers andthe general public for really ways to eat and diets that tie back toecosystem health, and that's really what encourage us to move in this. Thisdirection. As a result of talking to you and reporting this article thatwill be in the summer issues of edible magazines and edible communities. Icame away with a much more nuanced understanding of how cows can of impactthe environment. Like a lot of people. I was thinking that just a beef wasuniformly bad for the environment and when we talked you mentioned thatthere's all this buzz around plant base meets right now and that that doesn'ttell the story that it's not really doesn't really live up to the hype ofas a solution to our environmental problems. Can you can you tell me whatin a Nutchell, people are getting wrong about that and what I you know it waswhat I was getting wrong as well. Yeah, absolutely, I think you know. First,I'd say: What are people getting right about that and what I think people aregetting right about it and I'm encouraged by people are beingdeliberate. People are you being intentional about how their food andtheir lifestyle ties back to the environment we live in and I gev youknow, that's really encouraging. I think what we'regetting wrong is one thinking that there are these silver bullets therethey're to complex environmental questions and then a fixation onsomething. Let's say: A fixation on production has gotten us into sort ofthis mess that we're in environmentally as it relates to agoult. You know,production at all costs and now we're we're kind of over producing certainfoods and we're trying to find new ways to use the production of certain plantsfor energy and for other things, and...

...it's kind of gotten us into a bit of aquagmire. The final thing that I think people get wrong is just the basicscience of ecosystem and how they function, particularly grass lands.There's a saying anyone can love the mountains, but it takes soul to lovethe fur and I think it sort of sums up this underappreciated vital in vastecosystem that we have collectively walloped over the last hundred andfifty years, and I think that's what I think. A lot of people get wrong in thenotion that growing a commodity plant you know, corn, being Soe beans, etc,etc, is better than having a native ecosystem. That is grazed by fillingthe blank, and I say that for a reason, sort of filling the blank thatecosystem or grass NICO system evolved, naturally with large ruminantherbivores on the landscape, thirtyfive million ELP, sixty million buys an ETC,etc. And so I think what people get wrong. Is this notion that cattle areinherently bad for that ecosystem? That's not that's not true, and that'snot what various research has shown us left to their own devices. Cows are notas symbiotic as bys in an elk for native grass lands, but throughmanagement, deliberate, rotational, great grazing, eliminating Kiser, Ain Chemicals and other practices out of the production couch can be. Can Mimic that usefulnessin that that function, that that disturbance and that grazing, a regimethat these native and wild Herbana's once provide it? So it's really it'syou've, heard it probably quite a bit, but it's not the cow. It's the. How andthat's what our certification focuses on is how the cow is managed and andproduced, and we've seen some incredible data from branches that have been rolled three orfour or five years now, we've seen on average and increase in bird abundanceof thirty six percent, that reaffirms sort of why we went down this road andwhy I would encourage folks to think twice about just a plant base diet as asolution, because the effects on native grass lands again our most ubiquenative ECO system in North America could be quite devastating. Well, thankyou! So much for being with us today marshal. It was really great to talk toyou absolutely thanks for happening that was Marshall Johnson, the vicepresident of the Conservation Ranching Initiative at the National AttabadSociety. He gave a great Ted talk about how your shopping choices can impactthe environment in a positive way and we'll link to it in to day's. Shownotes at edible, communition Marilyn Noble is a writer who recentlydeveloped the recipes for grass bed, beef that appear in Panorama,perspective magazines, she's also the author of five southwestern Cosbi andhundreds of articles on agriculture, food and Business Marilyn. Thank you so much for joiningus today. I'm delighted to be here. Thank you. So grasped beef can be alittle bit of a controversial topic among eaters. You know: We've talked onthis podcast a lot about the environmental benefits, but some peoplehave the impression that aggressive beef just doesn't taste as good. So Iwas hoping you could share some positive things. You know you've,obviously cooked through Atlanta grass...

...fed beef in that project. So like whatpositive things can you say about the way it tastes? Well, you know to megrass fed tastes, really big and beefy. You know when you're used to eatinggrain fed beef, especially you know commodity beef that you buy at thegrocery store. It all tastes. The same and it's kind of bland but grass fedbeef reminds me of the meat we used to eat. When I was a kid you know it, itjust has a very meaty, beefy flavor and then the other part of that is terroir.If you're a wine drinker. You know about that. You know the the grapesfrom one vineyard create wines that taste totally different from thevineyard down the road, and the same thing is true of grass fed beef. Youknow the the taste of the meat the flavor that comes through is actuallythe flavor of what the cows were eating. So you know if it's spring and there'sa lot of fresh green grass. You might get a grassy note in the beef if it'sfall and they're eating forage, you might get more of a vegetale or youknow alfalfa flavor to it. So you truly do get to eat. You know everybody saysyou're eating what the animal ate. You're really tasting that and to methat's one of the beautiful things about dress fed. You know it's nevernever the same twice it can. It can vary and it's delightful, the more complex flavour, much morecomplex. Yes now I know that. There's somechallenges in cooking it or, I guess, a better way to say it- would bedifferences from grass fed or from conventional beef. Can you talk alittle bit about what those differences might be? Well, the big thing is thatgrass fed beef is leaner than conventional beef, so it's very easy oto cook the moisture out of it, and you don't want to do that because then youend up with something: that's really dry and tough, and I think that's a lotof where grass fed gets a bad rap. You know if it's overcooked, it's it's notgreat, so you have to really pay attention towhat you're doing you can't leave it on the heat too long like if you'recooking, a steak, you really want to pay attention use meat thermometer,even if you've never used one before invest in one mean thermometer, soimportant, so important so important, because it can go from perfectly doneto overdone in as little as a minute. So you just you just need to payattention and then you know, use a lower temperature, don't try to serthings and sometimes with a conventional steak.You know you throw it on the grill and you throw it on the hottest part of thecoals and you cook it and it's great, but you don't want to do that withgrass fit because you run the risk of over cooking, so pay attention and usea meat thermometer are the two big things you know what I that would begood. I mean this isn't for everyone, but if you have one of those homeemergin circulators th, one of like a home a bed set up where it holds a veryspecific temperature, then you can guarantee that you won't overcook ityeah Souvini great, for crass fit yeah. Have you done it? Do you have one? Idon't have one, but I know other people who have right, and it's really youknow if you said it to about a hundred and twenty hundred and twenty five,then you're going to get a really beautiful, rare piece of meat, and thenyou can just sear it off and you're O it's mistake. Proof is one of is thething that I like about it. It is so flipping through the magazine. Inoticed so many appealing recipes and you know we talked a little bit aboutpeople that have perhaps the wrong idea about Gress ould be for they think theydon't like it. What recipes do you think they should start with if they,if they want to, you, know, really...

...discover how great it is. Do you haveany specific recommendations? Well, you know the one I really love is forCarnesada sandwiches. You know, Carnesada is a typical meat dishthroughout the southwest and northern Mexico, and it's it's basically justgrilled meat. So if you get a Sirloin and you marinade it for a few hours ina mixture of olive oil, lime, juice,Chili powder, black pepper and garlic, then it those spices accentuate theflavor of the meat. They don't overwhelm it, but they don't hide iteither. So, if you haven't liked the flavor of grass fed in the past, youknow that's a great way to start with a really good marinade. So the beautifulthing about the Carne Asada is that you, after you marinate the meat. Then youthrow it on the grill really quickly and you you pilot on a Chivato role,with some spread made of mayonnaise a little hot sauce, a little lime juice.And then you grill, some thick cut red onions, some red peppers, a Poblanopepper. If you like, and you just pile that all on the sandwich- and it's sogood, it's so tasty. The meat gets thin sliced across the grain. So it's justit's a mess to eat, but it's so delicious. So it sounds perfect forsummer. It is it's great for summer, and that's one thing I would suggestyou know if you with this particular set of recipes. You know, if you'reafraid of the flavor, that's one that will help you get pastthat and then the other one. We have some great steak rubs. So if you wantto try a grass fed steak but you're afraid of the flavor put a rub on it,we have one here. One of the photographer said she couldput this rub on her toast. For breakfast she likes it's just it's very simple: it'sPaprika salt, cocoa powder, espresso powder, garlic powder, a little brownsugar and black pepper, and you mix that all up and you rub it a lot of itput a lot of it on the steak and it's so good when it comes off the grill,because it chars a little bit. It's got that smoky kind of bitter flavor fromthe Espresso and the cocoa powder, but it's got a hint of sweet from the sugar.It's just really good and then the other up. The other rubtoo, is also very good. It's also got espresso in it, but it's heavier on theChili. It's got smoke, Paprika and chapote powder and then some aregno andtime, salt and pepper garlic. You know both of those are really good for again.You know bringing out the beefy flavor and complimenting it with spice, butnot overpowering it or hiding it. And I mean maybe people are not so much likeafraid of it or think they don't like it, but maybe it's just differentunfamiliar and these types of bold flavors would help people you know,make the transition so to speak. Definitely definitely- and you know theother thing too, I think is again take care and cooking, because I've heard alot of people say: Oh grass sed it's so tough, but it's not if it's cookedproperly so right, right. Well, one thing grasped beef is especiallyorganic. Grass Fed grass finished beef. It's more expensive, there's no twoways about it: it costs more than conventional beef. Do you have anyadvice? Cooking Advice, shopping, a vice for home cooks on a budget. Ohsure, you know, first of all don't make it the center of your plate. You knownobody needs a big old ribsteak, that's hanging over the edges of the plate. Imean it's fun to eat that way, but that's certainly not a budget consciousway to eat. So you know: Go for smaller...

...portions go for off cuts that thatpeople don't think of too often like flank steak or skirt steak or brisket.We have a couple of recipes for those cuts in the Panorama perspective, andyou know those are a good way to buy meat on a budget. You eat a smallerportion instead of making it the center of the meal, and then you know as K.Cornelius who's, the GAM of Panorama likes to say ground beef is the gateway,so ground beef is away to. You Know Cook you're going to pay a couple:Bucks, maybe more a pound, but you know you can extend ground beef. You canfeed a family with a pound and it's just a reallygood budget way to eat grass fed yeah. You shared ten cooking tips in themagazine for cooking with grass fed beef, we're going to link to where ourlisteners can download the whole thing and read all the tips and see all therecipes, but could you maybe just mention one or two of the mostimportant tips right now sure you know, as we've talked before, the mostimportant thing is to pay attention when you're cooking use a meatthermometer, take care, don't over Cook you, you don't want to go past aboutmedium rare, take it off the heat before it gets to the correcttemperature so that you're going to let it rest for a few minutes. The other thing is even before you cookwatch the way you saw the meat, it's so easy to be in a hurry and say:Oh, you know, I think, I'm going to pull it that steak out for dinnertonight, but it's in the freezer, and so you don't ever want to leave it onthe counter thing. That's what I grassie like this is often sold frozenright. It is, it is yeah. Most of I think most of panoramas line is case,ready, meaning it's fresh meat, but you know sometimes even in when you buyfresh meat. Sometimes you stick it in your freezer yourself. So when you'rethawing it, you know, let it sit in the refrigerator for a couple of days or,if you're, in a hurry, put it in a vat of cold water and let it sit to the foryou know up to an hour. You don't want to let it sit there all day, of course,but that will usually get it to a point where it's cookable, don't ever thawmeating a microwave. Any thing happen. Tell us what happens merely oh my gosh,you end up with gray spots. You know part of it cooks, part of itstill frozen, and then you try to cook it and you end up with a mass. So sothat's an I bet. What do you want to do? No, no! No! That's a big bed o! No,especially when you're starting with quality. Nice, organic grassmen, beef.Oh exactly exactly so treat it with care. You know you have spent money onthis so and it should be something you really enjoy eating, so just treat itwith care. Be Gentle. Well, thank you so much for joining ustoday. Marylyn. It's been a pleasure talking to you, Oh you're, so welcome.It's been a pleasure to talk with you also that was food writer, Marilyn Noble youcan find her online at Marilyn noble and you can download the PanoramaPerspective magazine with the recipes we talked about today at ediblecommunities. Thank you for joining us today on eat,drink. Think. If you like this episode, please subscribe wherever you get yourpodcast and don't forget to pick up your local, edible magazine, you canfind show notes for today's episode at Edible Communities.

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